So many questions surround correct body position. It’s the one thing I have to tackle at every school or track day I attend.
If I am being honest, I have to laugh at some of the stuff I see on track and even more at some of the stuff I hear. I am not sure when we lost sight of complete reality. I do know our sport is about 2 things, speed and lean angle. However, you cannot teach everyone the same thing and even more crazy to me is all this Moto GP talk. Yah, I know it’s cool to want to compare ourselves to the likes of Rossi and Marquez but lets be real. None of us have or are riding Moto GP bikes are we? How can we compare ourselves to the elite in our sport when we are riding our 2009 Streetbike. Even a current Superbike is based off a production 1000cc motorcycle. And tell me, what is wrong with how Josh Hayes, current 4 time AMA Superbike Champion rides or sits on a bike. Have you seen how 4 time BSB Champion Shane Byrne sits on a bike? Go have a look. Tom Sykes, Jonathon Rea, study them all.
Ok, so I’m not cool because I’m not telling you to drag your elbow, or put your head below your handlebars, I am sorry. You see, as your speed increases and lean becomes more important, then your body position changes. At 64 degrees of lean angle do you think Marc Marquez’s body position is the same as when he is at 35 degrees of lean angle? Think about it:
- What is your lean angle?
- What do you think your bikes greatest lean angle is?
These are questions that are truly going to determine what your body position can get to.
So where is a good place to start? How bout, what is comfortable. Think about when you ride to the store. Why should you vary too much from that? You know how many people I come up on at a track day that have been taught to hang off a bike and they have 20 degrees of lean angle, they look so uncomfortable and awkward, I just don’t get it.
If you are looking to be a Social Media hero then keep hanging off more than you need to. If you want to be a more efficient rider, get less tired and feel what your bike is doing under you then stop over exaggerating what you are doing on the bike. If you want to get to the checkered flag first model yourself after someone who is riding a bike similar to what you are.
The Moto GP comparison just isn’t realistic.
Want to learn more about how you can make sure you have the correct body position – come to a STAR School. We will help you become a better, safer and more proficient rider. Check out our upcoming dates and reserve your spot now!
Ride safe, Jason Pridmore
Amen to that as it seems in club racing all the media is about how riders are dragging there elbows these days and how the achievement of doing so is a great accomplishment while I after racing for 26 years think it just looks rediculous while riding an R3,R6 or whatever.Sure we want to keep our heads down closer to the front bit Jesus at what cost totally fatigue at the end of one sprint race
I maybe old school but hey at least I’m at my school Right!
Joe,
Thanks for writing in about my article. I finally had enough of all the hype of hanging off a bike like Marquez. I agree with what you also about the fatigue part. One of the things that makes me laugh is how a lot of these “coaches” want you to ride like the best in the world. But, how many track day riders are training like the best in the world when off the track? Not realistic. Thank you again mate.
JP
Great article. Some people don’t like to hear stuff like this but lean angle and body position are functional things. It took a lot of guts to write this article since it goes against the grain of popular beliefs even if those beliefs are somewhat misguided.
Hi Robert,
Thanks for the compliments. I was tired of hearing the “Ride like a Moto GP rider” discussion. It isn’t something that is realistic at all. I have had nothing but support which has been really nice.
Thanks again,
JP
So good it had me digging for my wallet for your next track day session!
I wish we had more honest feedback like this in the mainstream moto media instead of “get 5 more HP outta….’.
Thanks for the straight skinny.
Ian,
Love your comments, had me cracking up. I feel like I wrote the straight skinny for sure. I am like you, tired of reading all the crap and dealing with “Facebook Heroes” who want nothing more than to look the part rather than truly understanding things. Worse part is, I truly feel it is hurting more than helping. Thanks again Ian and hope to see you soon.
Ride safe,
JP
Jason I could not agree more ! As an 1980s ex racer I do not understand guys hanging off there street bikes like monkeys. When I do a track day or quick street rideing they comment on how I do not hang off a lot. I just basically tell them it does not feel natural and I have always been a rider who likes to have good feel of the Bike underneath him. Anyways great article!!
Jim,
I believe we all have to evolve with time, thats kinda what happens in any sport. Unfortunately what people are being taught now in our sport is hurting them more than helping. Sadly, my way isn’t the “cool” way but its the most realistic and I feel helps people more. We aren’t all Moto GP riders on or off the track, so the point to ride like them makes no sense. That and their bikes are so completely different to ours.
Thanks for taking the time to say something mate.
JP
I think you’re pretty darn cool. At the same time, thanks for supporting the natural, comfortable riding style. I won’t break any speed records anytime soon, but every track day I have maximum fun and go home in one piece is a victory to me. Thanks for summing it up so efficiently.
Finally… Thank you!
Jason,
Thanks, glad you liked it.
JP
Old school . stopped racing back in 1982. Knee dragging was off to a good start. Yamaha TZ 350 B model. I never won a race out right.Sixth place ARROC 1980. Lots of seconds and back. No pucs no tape. Get off the center of the bike but you have to be able to back to the other side. I still see racers pull the bike down on them self they are so fare out of the seat. Learning curve.
Stephen,
I love it. Yea I know old school stuff, I have been around long enough. We have to evolve as time goes. But one point you make that I really like is getting from one side to the other. A lot of people have regular jobs and aren’t as shall we say “fit” as riders who are doing this for a living. I want to teach people to be as efficient on their bikes as possible.
Thanks for dropping a note in here.
Cheers,
JP
Dammit…I’m a social media hero. I hang off quite a bit. But I feel uncomfortable hanging off less. I’m still learning though. so with time it might change or it might not.
It definitely looked ridiculous when I first started riding track last year. But as I’ve gotten more skilled my speed has increased and now it doesn’t look AS ridiculous.
I’m nowhere NEAR dragging elbows and doubt I ever will. When I was still riding on the street I would practice moving around and setting up for corners and hanging off of the bike a bit… not as much as I do now as I wasn’t cornering fast on the street. So when I started riding at the track moving around the bike wasn’t a foreign feeling. I did initially OVER DO it and had my whole butt off of the seat. I’ve since only started moving one cheek off.
One day I’ll be fast… But I’ll forever be learning and improving.
If I had several passes through this turn, I compared the body positions to make sure the image I chose wasn t unusual.
i agree.. i remember going to a ride school., 3 days and body position was barely mentioned.. haha.. at first i thought they were on crack.. anyway they focused on corner entry and exit which turned out to be the faster safer way to ride and by far.. like much much faster and much much safer.. i highly recommend training for any bike rider.. anyway hanging off the bike is overrated., its important but overrated.. there are more important things to learn first .. IMO
Great article!
Yeah, I defenetly was one of those riders who thought hanging off is the way all the way. I definitely had to talk with some older guys to show me what’s what.
On a positive side, as a rider bare of any talent or feel for the bike, I enjoyed the safety that your knee on the tarmac brings. Stick the knee more out-go slower and safer arround the corner…
I have seen a bunch of fellow novices crashing because they went into too much lean for their abilities.
Appart of that I fully agree.
Cheers!
As for hanging very far and low is because when you corning very fast you shouldn’t fight against the gryo force produced by corning, so you have to hang off. Not too far that you feel nothing. You have to experience next time when corning. What you looking for is by not hanging off first ,just use your legs squeeze the tank, put some pressure on the bar,but not too straight. You should feel the gryo force, that’s when you get the most feel how bike moving underneath of you. I get this and feel encourage about my corning. To find out the same feels but with hang off. You practice on positioning yourself what’s comfortable for you. Keeps the same pressure on the bar, keep it that way, then move around your rest of your body ,how much your arms can bend and how much you upper body shift, and how much of your knees bend. Have someone take a video of you corning, and now you discover what’s your body position. For me my position is closer to shoulders out. I think it’s close to elbow to the ground, but less elbow stretch out, I feel too lose ,no bar feel when I extended my elbows out.
I honestly believe being “OVER” concerned about speed is the real problem. Tooooooooooo many riders and teachers alike are over concerned with this lust for speed. Trying to be too fast too quickly leads to practicing bad habits, and they become permanent.
Learning the proper physics of a bike and the fundamentals of riding 1st should be the goal, not BLAZING SPEED at any cost, including the sacrifice of good fundamentals!
“No one with even a fundamental understanding of physics doubts the advantages of keeping the rider’s weight as low and to the inside as possible” the “modern riding style is the correct one physics dictates that not rider’s style. It’s as simple as that.
And there is nothing comfortable about riding a bike, until you adapt and train yourself to be comfortable, twisted up BPs and unbalancing a bike while in a corner is simply not smart or logical, like it or not it’s just the simple truth. The Modern BP is the correct one, accepting that and adapting is the only way forward.
Good to see someone who has the resume to say it speaking up. Back when I started it was “chicken strips” that was used as a “speed” determiner and that eventually got debunked. Then in the last decade the concept of “dragging a knee” replaced it and eventually that no longer became the mark of speed. It’s good to see that the community generally agrees that over exaggerated body position doesn’t really equate to speed.
It’s painful some weekends doing a track day and all you hear in the paddock is how so and so is almost dragging elbow. Meanwhile they can turn a set of consistent laps in a session to save their life!